A Story About a Boy, the "Disney Defectors" and a Movie About a Place Called NIMH.

 

"Courage of the heart is very rare.
The stone has a power when it's there."
-Nicodemus

Jay here.

I think we all have movies that we cherish from our childhood. You know the ones I'm talking about. That film you come across on television one day and you can't turn the channel because you haven't seen it in years. You watch scene after scene, awash not only in the nostalgia of remembering a story you loved, but also connecting to a half-forgotten time from your early youth. The other day I had one of these moments as I came across a classic animated film that I hadn't seen in years.

It was 1984 and I was a 7-year-old boy growing up in the south side suburbs of Richmond, Virginia in a town called, Chester. I lived in a 2 bedroom duplex with my mom. By day I went to 3rd grade at C.C. Wells Elementary were I was learning to read and write from Mrs. Fornash. In the afternoons I would usually race home so I could catch the after-school cartoons like The Transformers, G.I. Joe or M.A.S.K..

One of my favorite movies played on HBO frequently and I always knew it was coming on when I heard that familiar music that accompanied the United Artists logo. I would yell out to my mom, "The Secret of NIMH is on mom!"

The Secret of NIMH was an absolute favorite of mine. I saw it so many times that I could almost recite the dialogue by heart. It was dark for an animated film meant for children and that fascinated me. I would laugh hysterically at the antics of the accident prone crow, Jeremy (voiced brilliantly by Dom DeLuise) and gasp at the creepy glowing eyes of the Great Owl (John Carradine).

Based on the Newbury Award winning book, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH, by Richard O'Brien, the movie follows the trials and tribulations of a widowed field mouse named Mrs. Brisby (name changed to avoid legal entanglements with the inventors of the Frisbee toy) as she struggles to find a way to move her three children and their home before the farmer's plow tills them up. Her youngest son, Timmy has pneumonia and he is too sick to leave his bed. After visiting the aforementioned Great Owl, he advises her to seek the help of the mysterious rats who live in the nearby thorn bush.

Not your normal hero, Mrs. Brisby simply wants to take care of her children and find them a new home.

Of course, these are no ordinary rats. When Brisby meets their leader, the old and wise Nicodemus (Derek Jacobi), she learns that they are escapees from a lab run by "N.I.M.H.", the National Institute of Mental Health. The scientists there injected the rats with experimental drugs whose side effects caused the rodents to develop a human-like intellect. Reading, writing and using technology that no animal would normally be able to comprehend. Her late husband, Jonathan was also exposed to the machinations of NIMH. He was instrumental in helping the rats escape and this is why his widow is revered among them.

Now these rats want to move, as well, to a place of their own where they no longer have to steal electricity, technology and other necessities from humans. They call this move "The Plan", and there are some, like the nefarious villain, Jenner (Paul Shenar) who would rather the rats stay put and continue their lives of savaging and thievery. He also covets leadership and a magical stone that Nicodemus gives to Mrs. Brisby as a gift to remember her late husband.

Mrs. Brisby meets the wise and enigmatic Nicodemus.

As I watched The Secret of NIMH I was overcome by a wave of memories from those days after school when I was a kid. I wondered what it was about this movie that so enthralled me. I think a big part of it was the fact that NIMH presented a hero that was unlike most in animated adventure stories. Mrs. Brisby was just a mom trying to find a way to move her family without risking her son's health. There was no traditional sword-wielding knight like you might find in a children's film geared towards boys, or a princess trying to find love like most that are made for girls. Just a single mom, with faults. She was afraid about having to be the sole parent. And the things she would have to do to ensure her family's safety test her courage in ways it's never been tested before.

Our heroine runs for her life from an unfriendly member of the rats of NIMH.

At the time I was being raised by a single parent. Sure, my mother had help from family, but during this period it was mostly me and her. She and my dad had divorced when I was only two years old. She was my world at the time, and maybe in some way I saw her reflected in the small mouse with the red cape.

Looking into the making of The Secret of NIMH I was intrigued at the story of how it came be. In the 1970's Don Bluth was one of the head animators at Walt Disney. He was responsible for several of the studios most well known features of the era like The Rescuers and Pete's Dragon. During production on The Fox and The Hound around 1979, Bluth, producers John Polmeroy and Gary Goldman along with about 20 animators abruptly left Disney to start their own independent studio. They became known in the press as the "Disney Defectors".

Don Bluth (pictured here with Mrs. Brisby) was one the primary creative forces at Disney before leaving to start his own studio.

Bluth has said that he and the others who left with him had become frustrated with the direction Disney's animation department was going in. It had moved further away from the traditional techniques used when Walt himself had run the company. Remember this was a dark period for the once pioneering studio. It would be years before The Little Mermaid would resurrect Disney and usher in a new golden age of feature length cartoons.

Bluth settled on O'Brien's novel for his young company's first film. He smartly recognized the story's potential for providing an entertainment that would be both heart-warming but also dark and sinister. Both children and adults would be enthralled by the multi-layered narrative and visuals. He also employed many techniques that both harkened back to the traditional style of early animated features and also employed some new ones. One of these was backlit animation, achieved by shining light through color cells on matte paintings. It gave the glowing effect that is seen in some of the characters' eyes and throughout other parts of the film.

He also cast a great ensemble of actors to provide the voices. Derek Jacobi and Dom DeLuise are particularly great, but it's Elizabeth Hartman's performance as Mrs. Brisby that anchors the whole thing. The actress's story is a tragic one I didn't know until I was researching this column. She came to Hollywood's attention when she was nominated for an Oscar for Best Actress in the 1965 film, A Patch of Blue which also starred Sidney Poitier. But instead of capitalizing off of her success and developing a career she became more and more reclusive. Hartman suffered from sever depression and sadly took her own life in 1987 when she threw herself from a five-story building. The Secret of NIMH was her final role.

Elizabeth Hartman's final role was to give voice to the courageous and good-hearted heroine at the heart of The Secret of NIMH.

The decision to have Jerry Goldsmith score the movie was also a critical one. His music for NIMH remains one of his greatest achievements. Both sweet at times, and dynamic at others it's as under appreciated as the film itself. It was Goldsmith who connected Bluth with Steven Spielberg. Together they would collaborate on several of Bluth's later projects like An American Tail and The Land Before Time.

But it's The Secret of NIMH that still remains his crowning achievement. It remains a somewhat forgotten gem that only enthusiasts like me point to as an important piece of animation history. With important themes like finding the courage you never thought you had and cautionary overtones on laboratory animal testing, it was a movie that was both ahead its time and an homage to the golden age of Disney animation like Bambi and Pinocchio. Yes, of course, I'm nostalgic for a movie that I watched over and over as a kid, but watch it for yourself (it's available to stream on Hulu). I still think it is one of the greatest hand-drawn animated films of all time.

"You can open any door if you only have the key."

Matt & Jay Discuss the New Star Wars Teaser Trailer and its Place in the Saga

Matt here! Jay and I are both some of the biggest Star Wars fans around, and we were just as excited about the release of the newest film's teaser trailer this past Friday (Nov. 28) than the next fan. So it was only natural that we would discuss what is seen in that trailer. 

First, let it be known that there are lots of fake trailers floating around the internet so be wary as to what you view. The only, true trailer for Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens is below, at the end of our conversation. And there are no spoilers for Episode 7 in our conversation. 

So, without further ado, here is our conversation:

Jay: So, did you ever think you'd be talking about an Episode VII of Star Wars?

Matt: I only hoped! But I think it's come along at the best time. If it had come earlier, I don't know if I'd be as excited. What about you?

Jay: I agree. I think one of the things that most excites me is that George Lucas isn't directing it. And I'm not as big a basher of him as many others are, but I like the idea of another creative interpretation of the world he created.

Matt: Couldn't agree more! Much love for Lucas but I wouldn't be as exciting if he was directing/writing it. I think it was time for someone else to take the reins. Let's get down to brass tax! We know the voice-over belongs to Andy Serkis! They say his role is small but integral to the story. Thoughts?

Jay: I didn't even recognize his voice. My first thought was: Smaug!! It really sounded like [Benedict] Cumberbatch.

Matt: Me too! I was hoping it would be him!

Jay: I have no idea who he could be. An old Jedi? But Luke's supposed to be the last.

Matt: Could be. Or some historian who knows of the Jedi/Sith. I have the feeling the use of the Force has been dormant since the 30 years prior to Return of the Jedi.

Jay: Yeah. Like Luke become a hermit or something. I think everyone assumed he would rebuild the Jedi Order. Maybe that didn't happen?

Matt: I have my theories. Just by viewing the trailer and hearing the narration, it sounds like the Force users (i.e., Jedi, Sith) have gone into hiding or just haven't been discovered the past 30 years. The trailer gives the feel that there aren't many of those type of people and somehow the presence of the Force is somewhat re-discovered. Have you read any potential spoilers about the plot?

Jay: No. I'm going spoiler free.

Matt: I have to admit that I only read one and I don't like what I read.

Jay: Don't tell me!

Matt: I won't!

Jay: So most of the talk has been about the black stormtrooper. It's just more evidence on how messed up people are that they chose that to focus on. It didn't register with me until I started reading people's comments.

Matt: I LOVE John Boyega's twitter response: "Get over it." Excellent!!!

Jay: Yeah. The main argument has been that aren't the stormtroopers supposed to be clones of Jango Fett.

Matt: But it is interesting that the stormtrooper is no longer just the Jango clone. This means there is a voluntary enlistment for the military! I think there is somewhat of a merge between the empire and the rebels.

Jay: Unless he's just wearing the armor like Han and Luke in A New Hope.

Matt: Ah, touché!

Jay:  Did you hear the probe droids in the background?

Matt: Yeah!

Jay: Have you seen Attack the Block?

Matt: Yes. But I didn't like it much.

Jay: I thought it was good, but not as great as many hyped it to be. He was good in it though. Soccer Ball Droid. Any thoughts? It's possible he isn't even a main droid in the film. But he's cool for the kids.

Matt: I understand the need to have something for the kids, but let's get serious, the filmmakers don't have to play it up so much. When the original Star Wars (A New Hope) was released, there was no zany alien speaking funny and doing clutzy things. Albeit, there was Artoo and 3PO to provide that "Laurel and Hardy"-type thing, but that was for all ages and not just kids. I guess what I'm trying to say is there were no moments in that film that catered just to the little kids. The entire film was for audiences of all ages. I hope that continues with this one, because, as we saw with Episode 1 (Phantom Menace), it was the nail in the coffin of that trilogy.

Jay: Yup. Before we continue, I'm curious. Rate the previous six Star Wars films in order from least favorite to favorite.

My list is:

6. Attack of the Clones

5. Phantom Menace

4. Return of the Jedi

3. Revenge of the Sith

2. A New Hope

1. Empire Strikes Back

Matt: Mine are:

6. Phantom Menace

5. Attack of the Clones

4. Return of the Jedi

3. Revenge of the Sith

2. A New Hope

1. Empire Strikes Back

Jay: We're pretty close

Matt: To me, Empire is a great standalone film. Imagine if we had never watched New Hope and Empire was released. It would be like a lot of films today -- starting right in the middle of the lives of these people. It would still be extraordinary and just as great!

Jay: I agree it’s great on its own, but I love New Hope. It was the first and it has for me the best performance of all the films in Alec Guiness as Obi-Wan. It's still so good.

Matt: Yup! Looks like Oscar Isaac is the X-wing pilot. Do you think he has some relation to Han Solo?

Jay: I don't know. You'd have to think he and Leia had kids, right?

Matt: It's what happened in the books. But I know [director] J.J. Abrams and crew want to stray from that. What I'd like to see is if Leia and Han did not get together or stay together.

Jay: That would be interesting. So, I'm really hoping Daisy Ridley is the Luke/Anakin of this story. I think it would be awesome to have a kick-ass female Jedi lead who grows into a total bad-ass.

Matt: I think she will be. Think about it. Abrams has always had strong, kick-ass female leads in his productions.

Jay: I was disappointed that Natalie Portman's Padme lost her strength and is reduced to a crying wife in the background in Revenge of the Sith.

Matt: YES!!! Unfortunately, though, that sort of had to happen to open up the tragedy which befalls Anakin. But she did have the strength to tell him "You're going down a path I can't." And that took courage.

Jay: Yeah, but even though Padme and Leia have a strength I still think a female protagonist would be awesome.

Matt: Definitely!

Jay: Ok, who is "Mr. Cross Sabre"? Adam Driver?

Matt: Here we go!!! Driver would be great! Did you see Stephen Colbert's segment on it? Hilarious!

Jay: Yes! So funny! Loved how he explained the lightsaber and how it works.

Matt: My main criticism or, I should say, notable observation would be not the two hilt mini-sabers, but the way the blade itself looked. Lightsabers are usually smooth looking, but this one looked jagged along both sides of the blade. Did you notice? I think that's further proof that someone -- a Sith? -- made his own crude lightsaber, thus proving the Force has not been used in the past 30 years or so.

Jay: Yeah, I did notice that. It crackles too.

Matt: Yes, which they also crackle in A New Hope, which further proves my theory that the Jedi/Sith have been dormant for quite some time. I remember the backlash when Darth Maul's lightsaber was revealed because although pretty much everyone thought it was badass, Lucas still went on record after that film (Menace) and said that the usual style is to have only one lightsaber, one blade. Of course, the multiverse folks ran with the idea, giving Jedi and mostly Sith two lightsabers. Lucas even dabbled on it in Attack of the Clones when Anakin fought Dooku with two lightsabers and in Revenge of the Sith when he had Anakin use two lightsabers to kill Dooku or General Grievous use four lightsabers (of course, he wasn't a Jedi or SIth).

Jay: I wonder why the cross-guard though?

Matt: I think it's just another attempt at having something different. Just like the Maul double blade.

Jay: Yeah. There's been a bit of backlash about that too. Some are saying that they have to reveal a different lightsaber every movie now. I think that it makes sense for the Sith to want to create lightsabers that are unique and standout. They are narcissists. Maul and Dooku all had unique lightsabers. So does this dude. Jedi would more than likely want a plain blade.

Matt: Agreed. I do think it's just a "WTF?"-moment 'cause it will make people more curious. But the funny thing is: The filmmakers don't need that moment. The voice over and the appearance of the Sith blade would be plenty to get people excited. It doesn't take much to excite Star Wars fans. I think we're just excited knowing a new film is being made!

Jay: Best moment of the teaser for me – the Millennium Falcon! That camera movement was fantastic

Matt: Yeah. You feel like you're flying with it! Looks like it got some repairs, a new wash!

Jay: New radar dish (“Damn it, Lando!”). I literally said, "Hell yeah" at that point!

Matt: Wouldn't it be great to get Billy Dee [Williams] back in this!?!?!

Jay: Yeah, but I guess it’s a no-go. I'd love to see his co-pilot again -- that goofy alien that flew into the Death Star with Lando [in Return of the Jedi].

Matt: Nien Nunb!!!!

Jay: Yes! He rules

Matt: I was most excited to hear John Williams’ iconic score again!!!

Jay: Yes. There would probably be no Star Wars without him.

Matt: Not to get into it too much 'cause we could go on forever -- and have -- but I will say that was what Man of Steel was sorely lacking!

Jay: A good score?

Matt: Williams’ iconic Superman theme!

Jay: Yes. Iconic.

Matt: So the next trailer will premiere with the release of The Avengers 2.

Jay: Sweet. I'm assuming will get some plot details? If it even mentions political machinations or trade negotiations I'm done.

Matt: Ha ha ha ha! I agree. Let's keep it away from all that! Yeah, the next trailer will be a normal time-length trailer (about 2 minutes 30 seconds).

Jay: I can't wait. Will you take your girls to see it?

Matt: Yes, I'll probably take my oldest daughter (8-yrs. old). And I'll take my youngest daughter (6-yrs. old) if she shows interest.

Jay: Before we go . . . Palpatine totally owned Yoda . . . Admit it.

Matt: NEVER!!! The dark side is quicker, easier, but it will never win.

Jay: I will maintain that Yoda is a coward in this moment. He was holding his own and fled after falling and hurting himself.

Matt: I believe it appears as if Palpatine was winning. But that was just where the fight ended. It was cut off before we could see what would've transpired. Thus, to me, it was a draw.

Jay: He allowed Palpatine to solidify his empire and caused the death of untold thousands. Why Yoda would leave and not prevent this confounds me.

Matt: Yoda did hold his hand and was injured, but he had the knowledge to know that he was wasting his time and doing more harm than good.

Jay: Harm to what? The Senate Chamber's decor??? No one was around! I still have issues with it.

Matt: I do too. I do wish there was a little more "closure" (for lack of a better word) on that moment.

Jay: Cool. I thought I was alone.

Matt: Yoda knew he was distracting Palpatine. And the reason I know that's all it was is because a Jedi never kills unless absolutely necessary. And not out of rage. Or revenge.

Saying killing Palpatine would save countless lives and putting it on Yoda is the same argument many have had with Joker and Batman for years!

Jay: I think this counts as a "necessary" moment for a Jedi. A Sith Lord is taking over the entire government. He's killing all the Jedi!

Matt: If Batman killed Joker he would be no better than Joker himself. Even if it was for the "Greater Good."

Jay: Ugggghhh!

Matt: Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Besides, both Yoda and Palpatine had to live to make it to the original trilogy.

Jay: So it's Yoda’s fault. The empire and everything. Because he shouldn't kill? OK, fine.

Matt: No, it's Palpatine's fault. He's the one who did it all. If Yoda had killed him, it would've been at great cost to his soul. Then, he wouldn't have been any good to anyone. Also, I look at Yoda's training of Luke as his own personal redemption (because he does feel guilty for not being able to stop Palpatine). And the empire.

Jay: I can see that. And he feels guilty for what happened with Anakin.

Matt: That was Obi-Wan's reasoning. He felt guilty for Anakin.

Jay: Yes.

Matt: Well, I guess we better wrap it up. Any more thoughts?

Jay: No, I'm super excited. I hope Abrams pulls it off in a big way. I also we get to see some familiar faces in the next trailer.

Matt: Me too! We'll discuss the trailer when it premieres.

Jay: Sure thing.

Jay and Matt Discuss "Interstellar" and Nolan's Place in Cinema

 

Matt here! Jay and I just discussed our thoughts about the latest science fiction hit film Interstellar, as well as director Christopher Nolan's place -- as well as his films -- in cinema.

 

WARNING: THERE ARE SPOILERS IN OUR CONVERSATION, SO IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM YET -- AND WANT TO -- THEN STICK TO OUR NON-SPOILER REVIEWS WHICH CAN BE FOUND ON THE CULTURE CAVE AND OUR RESPECTIVE BLOGS!

 

Jay: So, it's been a while since we chatted. Interstellar seemed like a good chance to get back into the swing of things, right?

Matt: Yeah! This was definitely one of my must-see films of the year! So, what were your first impressions as soon as you walked out of the theater?

Jay: Me too. I felt good about the movie overall. I was excited to get home so I could look up some of the science stuff online. I wanted to see how much of what they were showing was true science or just made up for the movie. That was what I was actually thinking when I left the film. It got me thinking about space again, in an exciting way. You?

Matt: I've always been excited about space and space travel/exploration, but the last 15 minutes or so had me questioning the validity of the science ... which I know there is no way of definitively knowing what will happen to a person if they enter a wormhole. But I'm thinking there's a high probability that one could not survive such an experience. Then again, we'll never know until someone attempts it. But that didn't take away from the overall quality of the film or story for me.

Jay: I agree. I definitely found a lot of scientists online, debunking a lot of the stuff that happens later in the movie. For me, at some point you have to suspend disbelief when dealing with science fiction, fantasy or any story that is grounded in imagination.

If you get hung up on plausibility you miss the point of what is essentially entertainment that makes you think.

Matt: I agree! As I said in my review, the beauty of science fiction is that it tests our thinking, our emotional and logistical/mental understanding and allows us to “think outside the box” (so to speak) when it comes to our lives and our place in the universe.

Jay: How did you feel about the performances?

Matt: This is, hands down, McConaughey's best film -- even much better than Dallas Buyers Club. There was only one tiny aspect to the film at the very end which I found unrealistic. SPOILER ALERT: And that was what Cooper did.

Jay: What? Leaving his dying daughter to go find Brand (Anne Hathaway)?

Matt: I could see a lot of my oldest daughter in the character of Murphy and if that were me and I left to go on some mission which, granted, had me saving humankind, but also missing a HUGE chunk of her lifetime, I wouldn't go anywhere. You couldn’t tear me away. And I think 99% of parents wouldn't either.

Jay: But didn't she ask him to leave?

BTW, I had no clue that was Ellen Burstyn playing the older Murph until I looked on IMDB when I got home.

Matt: Oh, you're slipping. Anyways, yes, she did ask him to leave, but that wouldn't matter. I just felt it was too emotionally distant for a father who supposedly had this close bond with his daughter whom he loved so much based on his reactions upon seeing her in the "parallel universe virtual room."

Jay: Yeah, I guess I see you're point. It was a pretty emotional movie.

Matt: I mean, he could've at least waited until she died before he so whisked in a spaceship and carelessly flew away. Anyways, yes, a very emotional movie.

I really enjoyed the concept of love as being a motivational and inspirational force.

Jay: Yes. That was explored quite a bit. It was also delved into with the Matt Damon character's whole speech about what we see flash in front of our eyes when we're trying to survive. And also in Brand's (Hathaway) reasoning for wanting to go to the planet where her old flame was marooned.

I did not know Damon was in this. When they fist unzipped him I couldn't but think of Team America -- "MATT DAMON!" I almost said out loud. Just like that puppet of him in that movie. Hehe.

Matt: I thought of him in the only other film where I've seen him play an obvious jerk: EuroTrip! "Scotty doesn't know!"

Jay: Ha ha! Yes, EuroTrip! He was almost distracting. Its like, "Let's put Matt Damon in this role and not tell anyone and they'll be shocked and say how cool of him to take this small, dark part. He's so versatile!!" Hehe

Matt: I knew as soon as he was crying about how happy he was just to see another human face how this was all gonna go down.

Jay: Yeah, he was super sketch from minute one. And surprisingly beefy. What was eating on that ice planet? More like "Fatt Damon," I think.

Matt: What did you think of the performances?

Jay: McConaughey was great in it. His best performance was still in True Detective for me. Hathaway was fine in it. I still don't get why people think she’s super-talented and gorgeous. Boggles my mind. There was no one that really stood out. They all did their jobs, you know?

Matt: Couldn't agree more, and I said it was McConaughey's best film performance. As for Hathaway, I admit that she did good in Les Mis and The Dark Knight Rises but, in this, she just annoyed me. And it wasn't her character. If another actress had played her, I probably would've liked the character better.

Jay: So, do you feel like this Nolan trying to channel Stanley Kubrick. He wanted to do his 2001?

Matt: I think he was definitely influenced by Kubrick's 2001 but, in terms of story, I feel there aren't as many similarities as people are making it out to be. It seems like just because it has that 2001-like feel, people are lining up to say it's “Nolan's 2001 film.”

Jay: Yeah. I don't think Kubrick was concerned with sentiment or emotional weight. He was more interested in the metaphysics behind his story and of course he wanted the technical aspects of his movie to tell his story - through images and sound he wanted his audience to have a cathartic response. Nolan wants more a response through story. When Cooper goes into the wormhole, though, that is obviously taken from 2001.

Matt: Plus the fact that the mission in 2001 has to do with discovering the origins of mankind. That sounds more like the plot line to the astronauts in Ridley Scott's Prometheus.

Jay: Yep. So, where does Interstellar rank for you in Nolan's filmography?

Matt: That's a difficult one because I think what he did with Inception was something truly amazing in terms of direction, acting, writing, etc. But there was more emotional depth to this film than Inception. I guess if I had to pick, I'd put this film just barely at #1.

Jay: True. I guess it depends on how important that emotional connection is for you. For me, The Dark Knight is still my #1 Nolan movie.

Matt: That would probably be my second favorite.

Jay: It is the best comic book film ever made. That has to count for something. I find it hard to a flaw in it

Matt: Yes, definitely the best comic book film ever made! Suck it, Marvel!

Jay: You've got to get over your Marvel hate, my friend. Such a hater. You know you can like both and it will be ok. :)

My Nolan top 5:

The Dark Knight

Inception

Memento

Interstellar

Insomnia

Matt: I'm getting "help."

My Nolan top 5:

Interstellar

The Dark Knight

Inception

Memento

The Prestige

Jay: Nice. Can we agree The Dark Knight Rises is a deeply flawed movie? It’s by far his worst. I tried to convince myself it was good. I kept lying to myself.

Matt: No, sorry, have to disagree. Obviously, not in his Top 5, but not his worst. It's got its flaws, but not his worst.

Jay: Uggghh. Are you going to say Batman Begins is worse, or Insomnia?

Matt: Sorry. Insomnia. Trust me, for me, there was no insomnia worries while watching that film!

Jay: Hehe. Clever pun. Insomnia is not as good as the original foreign version, I will say that.

Matt: I can't wait to see what he does next.

Jay: So, do you think Nolan is now one of the best in the business? Where does he rank for you in your list of active filmmakers? What kind of legacy do you think he'll leave?

Matt: He's definitely one of the best filmmakers nowadays. Then again, there are only a few notable filmmakers today: Fincher, Abrams, Cuaron, Jackson, Tarantino, and (although I hate to admit it) Singer. Granted, there are other directors who could make this list (i.e., Whedon, McQueen, Jonze, etc.), but I feel they haven't made enough films to be put in this list yet. For the first time in a long time, filmmakers like those previously mentioned are finally approaching coming into the same legendary status of the filmmakers of the 1970s we love so much.

As for what legacy he'll leave, time will tell. He has to make a few more original films before I can get an idea. Currently, the only original material he's filmed has been Inception and Interstellar.

Jay: I agree there some exciting directors out there, but we do disagree on a few. I don't think Abrams has proved much. Both Star Trek movies are good, but not even close to anything Nolan has done. I hope his Star Wars movie is great and I'm really rooting for him, but he has not made a movie that made me go WOW yet. Singer is too inconsistent, for every Usual Suspects and X-Men 2 we get Superman Returns or Valkyrie. Also, I would include Wes Anderson on my list as one of the greats.

Matt: I will say that a majority of films we see nowadays is muddled with potentially great filmmakers stuck in making some remake or adaptation.

Jay: Yeah. Originality is tough to find but I can't blame that on the folks trying to get their movies made, its the studios and producers fault. There's too much money at stake and no one wants to take a chance on an original story.

Matt: Yes, I agree with you about Singer! But, as for Anderson, I sadly have to say that I'm growing more and more unimpressed with his films' stories. Don't get me wrong the technical aspects and cinematography look great! But, I find his stories waning. It all started with The Aquatic Life with Steve Zissou.

Jay: I LOVE Steve Zissou!! And Moonlight Kingdom was such a sweet movie. Oh well …

Matt: I still LOVED Bottle Rocket, Rushmore, Fantastic Mr. Fox and The Royal Tenenbaums, though!

Jay: Fair enough. Well, we both loved Interstellar it seems. It’s nice to agree on something every once and a while, huh?

Matt: Yes! What did you think of Jessica Chastain?

Jay: She was fine. I though Mackenzie Foy was just as good, though.

Matt: I thought she was amazing for a girl her age! A great talent!

Jay: She was very good, yes.

Matt: Coincidentally, I just saw her in a TV show my girls watch called R.L. Stine's The Haunting Hour and I know she was in The Conjuring.

Jay: I felt bad for that guy having to wait on the ship for over 23 years while they were down on the wave planet. What did he do for 23 years?

Matt: Yeah! When they were getting ready to go to the planet, he was all casual, saying, "I'll run samples ..." Poor bastard.

Jay: I guess he ran a lot of samples

Matt: Yeah! So what are some of the holiday must-see films coming up for you?

Jay: Well, next weekend is Mockingjay. Looking forward to it. Obviously, The Hobbit.

Matt: Wait. Mockingjay!?!? Seriously!?

Jay: Unbroken. I read that book. Very good. Also, Into the Woods.

Yes . . . . Mockingjay. You have a problem with the Hunger Games? Katniss kicks ass!

Matt: I won't go there. But I do like that Katniss provides a positive female role model character for young people. But I think it would kick 100% more ass if there weren't some ultimate love triangle.

Jay: I think of it more as a feminist role reversal. I like how, in this story, it's the girl who has to rescue the "dude in distress."

Matt: Well, you don't have to go far for that. All people need to do for that is watch The Wizard of Oz. Think about it. Dorothy rescues the Scarecrow and Tin Man. She also invites them to see the wizard -- as she does with the Lion. And when they are finally confronting the Wicked Witch, who kills the witch? Dorothy! And, even better. She unintentionally does it while trying to help her friend Scarecrow by putting out the fire on his arm with the water. In fact, all of the women in that film have the power and/or have the "final say" -- from Dorothy to Aunt Em to the Wicked Witch to Glenda the Good Witch.

Jay: Hmmmm, interesting point. Well, I have to bring this to a close. In closing, what are you looking forward to?

Matt: I'm looking forward to The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies, Into the Woods, and The Imitation Game.

Jay: Yep, we should get back together to discuss The Hobbit. We'll be able to put the entire Hobbit Trilogy in contrast to The Lord of the Rings (LOTR) Trilogy.

Matt: Yes, we definitely need to discuss that one! It's finally getting good. By the looks of the latest preview, the third installment looks like it will tie in mythology everyone knows in LOTR.

Jay: Agreed. Until then?

Matt: Until then, this is Matt signing off. Have a good one!

Jay: You too, man.