WARNING: THIS THREAD CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILERS!!! DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT YET SEEN THE FILM!
Matt: OK. So ... first thoughts? I've written a spoiler free review so people already know I generally really enjoyed this film!
Jay: First off, before we begin a deep discussion of the new Star Wars movie let's do an experiment. Rank episodes 1-7 in order of preference. I think you already did this in your review but let’s do it again.
Matt: From best to least favorite:
Empire
Force
Awakens
New
Hope
Return
of the Jedi
Revenge
of the Sith
Attack
of the Clones
Phantom
Menace.
Jay: My rankings:
Empire
New
Hope
Force
Awakens
Return
of the Jedi
Revenge
of the Sith
Phantom
Menace
Attack
of the Clones
OK, we'll come back to this.Jay: My overall impression was very positive. Things I loved:
Rey - Daisy Ridley
Kylo Ren - Adam Driver
Finn - John Boyega
Han Solo and Chewie
BB-8
I felt like I was watching Star Wars again. And that
was the intent of the filmmakers. Gain back our trust. It almost went too far into
trying to mirror New Hope. But not
far enough to hurt it.Matt: Yes, but it clearly was the right move. I mean, George Lucas tried "something new" with the prequels and look how well that went!
Jay: I agree. I just hope the next installment start to distance themselves a bit and try some new things.
Matt: I think some of the "mirror moments" were a testament to how history can generally repeat itself. I mean, we can look at events going on in the world today and see similarities in history.
Jay: True.
Matt: And the character to kick off this new trilogy had to be a droid akin to R2. Lucas tried Jar Jar and, again, see how that turned out.
Jay: But this is a film series and if you retread the same plot points over and over its going to wear thin. It didn't hurt this movie though.
Matt: Only to those who can't take joy in the newfound moments and characters. I agree, it didn't hurt the movie. Let me tell readers now that we WILL be discussing spoilers so, if anyone hasn't seen the film, turn back now!
Jay: Let's talk about Daisy Ridley as Rey.
Matt: That being said, Ridley's Rey was everything I was hoping for! When that lightsaber flies into her hand -- even though it's predictable -- it's a cheer-worthy moment!
Jay: Yeah. Everyone cheered in my audience.
Matt: In fact, I couldn't help but let out a defiant "YES!"
Jay: So many questions. Why does the lightsaber go to her and not Ren? He's Anakin's grandson.
Matt: Because she's stronger in the force!
Jay: Do you think she's related to Anakin?
Matt: Well, that leads to who are her parents. I have two theories. My first immediate theory is that she's Kylo Ren's sister. My second theory is that she's Luke's daughter.
Jay: Those are the two most popular theories. Would you be happy if either of them are true? Or do you hope for something different?
Matt: I thought she was Ren's sister because there are moments in the movie where it points to that. I would love if she were Ren's sis. But I'm not so sure how I feel about her being Luke's daughter. Especially since he would be training her in the ways of the force in the second film.
Jay: I hope she is not Luke's daughter. I agree that she could be Ren's sister.
Matt: I think the nepotism in her training would be too weird.
Jay: Agreed. Part of me hopes that she is something different.
Matt: I think the overall plot on her end will be having to "save" Ren and draw him back to the light side of the force.
Jay: Yeah, that would be good and it would be in line with the usual themes of Star Wars. I liked how she was clearly a feminist lead for a new generation of girls. What did your daughters think of Rey?
Matt: They liked her a lot. But they don't look at her in terms of feminism, of course. But I made sure I got them each a Rey t-shirt for Christmas! I think they were more excited about seeing the original characters.
Jay: I could see that. One of the controversial topics is how Rey is able to best Ren without any proper training. Thoughts?
Matt: She wasn't able to best him until she closed her eyes -- like Maz Kanata instructed her to -- and let the force in. She's clearly got a stronger connection to the force ... like Luke's connection is stronger than Leia's.
Jay: Also, he was injured by Chewie's crossbow blast.
Matt: Well, that too. She still has a lot to learn, though. Which is what the next film will feature. Maybe we'll even see what Sith training is like, a la between Snoke and Ren.
Jay: Please don't bring up Snoke. I admit, I am not a fan.
Matt: Ha ha ha! He seems straight outta Mordor!
Jay: Don't even compare him with Sauron. OK. Who Is he, do you think?
Matt: No, not comparing him to Sauron, but he seems like he's from that Lord of the Rings world!
Jay: It was the only moment I though the CGI was poorly done.
Matt: I can't say I pretend to know who or what he is as we've never seen a creature/person like him in the Star Wars universe before.
Jay: He seemed out of place and poorly executed.
Matt: He's just another Emperor-like character.
Jay: Is he Darth Plaguis? Lots of theories on that. He looks a lot like him.
Matt: No. Plaguis was killed by Sidious (Palpatine)! If they try to say Palpatine didn't kill him, I will NOT like that!
Jay: There are debates about that. But I thought the books were thrown out so I hope he isn't alive.
Matt: The books were BUT Palpatine tells the story in Revenge of the Sith so it's still canon!
Jay: I really the character of Finn! He felt like a new type of character: A soldier with PTSD, running away from danger, drawn back to try to save a girl who doesn't need saving – loved that thread! He had some of my favorite moments.
Matt: Finn still may have force in him. He's just not trained. But I think he'll be more of the normal Han Solo-type character ... without being Han Solo.
Jay: Adam Driver as Kylo Ren was probably my favorite character in this film. I LOVE this villain!
Matt: Yes! SO complex!
Matt: Moving on to the next plot point. It's a bit weird that Ren is naturally drawn to the light but wants to be on the dark side. He even says to the Supreme Leader that he feels he's being seduced. I think the Supreme Leader (Snoke) told Ren something different regarding Vader's death. Or he just really is a power-hungry brat.
Jay: He's a spoiled child. Playing at being a Sith.
Matt: One of my favorite scenes in the film is between him and Rey when he is trying to use the force to extract information.
Jay: That scene was great! I love it when he freaks out when things go bad. Vader would have force strangled someone.
Matt: Yeah! LOVED the stormtroopers turning around!
Jay: This kid is not a Sith!
Matt: Agree!
Jay: But he is making some very bad decisions.
Matt: I just hope his "saving" isn't the main plot point because he is naturally drawn to the light and it's not much of a chore. But, after killing your father, he's definitely going down that Vader-like path. But, as I told my kids who haven't seen Revenge of the Sith, Vader did MUCH worse!
Matt: I hope she saves him and there's a little something more.
Jay: Me too. I can't imagine him being killed in this series. Driver was soo good. Great casting!
Matt: Yeah! And Daisy Ridley!? WOW!
Jay: How did Han's death play for you?
Matt: I thought it was inevitable -- especially since Ford wanted it in Jedi. BUT ... what I LOVED about it was Han's transition. If you go back and watch Hope, you'll see he's simply about himself, he's selfish and a bit greedy. But by the time he confronts his son, he's come full circle. He's turned into a self-sacrificing, caring, understanding, forgiving father. He's everything he wasn't in Hope (although, he's still a badass)! But I also think he knew he was going to die when he hugged Leia goodbye.
Matt: The way he caresses Ren's face was SO great and touching! Did you notice what Han called him!? I swear I heard Ben!
Jay: Yes, his name is Ben. Ben Solo. Named after Obi-Wan "Ben" Kenobi. I saw it coming too. It was pretty sad to watch. Especially Chewie's reaction.
Matt: Yeah. For a split second, I thought Chewie was going to get killed, but when Han stepped onto that bridge, I knew. Ben Solo. Sounds like a Jacen Solo to me!
Jay: Is that his kid's name in the books?
Matt: Yup! The twins -- Jacen and Jaina Solo. And who's Luke's and Mara Jade's son's name? Ben! Ben Skywalker!
Jay: Hmmmm. I thought this movie was also pretty funny at times. I'd go as far to say that it is the funniest Star Wars film.
Matt: Which is what it needed. Reminded me of the draw of the original films. The humor!
Jay: Many great, funny moments and lines.
Matt: Definitely the funniest!
Jay: Favorite line: "What do you mean 'You're cold!'"
Matt: LOVED the thumbs-up by BB-8!
Jay: Yeah, BB-8 was so well-done!
Matt: And Chewie talking to the Nurse. "You must be SO brave."
Jay: Yeah, so funny!! It’s sad to say he made R2 look old when they were together on screen.
Matt: Yeah, but R2 is classic! People applauded when he came on screen!
Jay: So, was there anything about this movie that you didn't like?
Matt: I have to say I have mixed emotions about Oscar Isaac's Poe. It's like Isaac was overacting and I didn't exactly care for his character.
Jay: He wasn't really developed and seemed one note.
Matt: I read that he was originally supposed to be killed but J.J. Abrams decided to keep him. So we'll see where that character goes.
Jay: It might be sacrilegious but I think this might be the weakest John Williams’ Star Wars score. There was no new main theme that really grabbed me.
Matt: Some parts were really well done, but he still knows how to incorporate the original score! But, yeah, not as good as the originals! There weren't many noteworthy themes!
Jay: It also relied on old themes too much. When you first think of this movie what's the first scene that pops in your head?
Matt: Yeah, but, be honest, people LOVE those old themes. They crave them! If he hadn't used them that much, people would be complaining about that!
Jay: Sure, but he could have made one better new theme to pair with them.
Matt: Agreed!
Jay: I'm
splitting hairs though.
Matt: Did you hear John Landis' son, Max, rant about the "perfection of Rey"?!
Jay: Huh? No. What's that all about?
Matt: I'll include the six-and-a-half-minute video link here: video. Basically, he says she doesn't do anything wrong in the film and gets pretty much everything right! I disagree with his theory, but ... to each his own!
Jay: Whatever.
Matt: Exactly!
Was there anything you weren't too crazy about -- besides Snoke?
Jay: I
agree with you on Poe. I don't know how I feel about the Starkiller base. I
can't get over the science of absorbing a sun/star. I am trying to suspend
disbelief. It’s a small thing, I guess. Matt: Well, it's obviously another Death Star (like Han said, "Just bigger!")! But I didn't mind it overall. They had to have some major obstacle in the film.
Jay: A question for you: Why is this movie better than the original 1977 Star Wars?
Matt: As for your question about why I liked this one better. I'm sorry. I know purists will think I'm being blasphemous but, as much as A New Hope kicked off everything, when you look at the overall story, Awakens just had much more going on than Hope. It had more action, all of the mythology and it never lulled. There were some slow moments in Hope -- whether anyone wants to believe it or not!
Jay: Fair enough. For me, it’s some of the slow moments that make it great. I guess, in some ways, I feel The Force Awakens (TFA) is partly an homage to A New Hope (ANH). It’s hard to say its better when it owes so much to it. Also, Alec Guiness is in ANH. No one in this movie comes close to that performance. I couldn't rank it lower just because it has slower moments and not as much action. Everything was new in it. Oh well ... it doesn't offend me you think TFA is better, just we differ there.
Matt: I can see your point, but when all the films are looked at together -- without thinking of ANH being the first -- than I just think TFA was better. That's cool. Agree to disagree! And if you want to talk homages. Even though it's not in the Star Wars universe, we know ANH is an homage to Akira Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress!
Jay: In a way, yes. But not in the same series or as obvious. When you think of TFA what's the first scene/thought that pops into your head?
Matt: As for the first scene I think of in TFA, it's that interrogation between Ren and Rey! What about you?
Jay: The fight between Ren and Finn that transitions into the fight between Ren and Rey.
Matt: Yeah! REALLY good!
Jay: Kylo Ren beating his chest.
Matt: Han getting impaled!
Jay: Rey's vision when she touches Anakin's lightsaber.
Matt: And that ending!?!?! With Luke giving Rey that look!? I wanted the trilogy to continue!
Jay: Yeah. I want to know more about Luke and what he's been up to. What is his agenda?
Matt: Good question. We'll have to wait until 2017 to find out!
Jay: At least it’s not as long as we had to wait between installments before. The "white slavers" at Disney are able to churn them out quicker. Hehe!
Matt: Yeah. He's ridiculous. When he had the reins, it was three years between each installment! I heard J.J. is already disappointed he didn't sign on for Episode 8. But I think Rian Johnson will do great! Brick is one of my favorite films of all time!
Jay: For me, it's one thing, Lucas, if you don't like the movie and you're hurt you didn't get included, but don't turn around and about face and apologize. Own it. If you don't like it then you have the right to say that, but you sold the company for $4 billion. No one feels sorry for you. It doesn't offend me he didn't like the movie or that he said that. Just think its lame to turn around and apologize and say the movie is great now. He created the franchise. He is entitled to his opinion.
Matt: Agreed. Like I said, I'll always have respect for him for creating it all. But, just 'cause Disney's new film was great and his prequels were lackluster, don't throw a hissy.
Jay: Yeah. I LOVE Rian Johnson. Brick, Looper – all great. I actually think he's a better filmmaker than J.J. Abrams, so I'm super excited.
Matt: But I don't like the idea of Colin Trevorrow doing Episode 9. Safety Not Guaranteed was really great but Jurassic World sucked. Sorry. It sucked! But that could be more about the writing than the direction!
Jay: I didn't like Jurassic World either, so we're together on that. We'll have to wait and see.
Matt: Yup! Well, I gotta wrap this up! Any final thoughts?
Jay: I think we pretty much agreed on most things in this movie. Great movie, lots of fun. Feels like Star Wars again. Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley were my favorite things in the movie. Small quibbles on things I didn't like, but they were minor. You?
Matt: Yeah! Agreed about Driver and Ridley! It was fun to see my kind of Star Wars again! Loved the use of the Jedi Mind Trick by Rey, and the use of Obi-Wan's voiceover (by Guiness and McGregor) in her vision at Maz's temple! SO EXCITED for the next installment. Like I said, I wish it would've kept going all the way through!
Jay: Well, let's do this again in 2017!
Matt: Yup! Sure will! Have a good one!
